Agenda item

To receive the following petition received for presentation to this meeting which meets the threshold for a Council debate.

 

SAVE BRAESIDE AND OXENWOOD: Wiltshire Council’s 2 outdoor education centres

The Chairman introduced the item, informing the meeting that a petition had been received which met the threshold for a Council debate in accordance with the Council’s Petition Scheme, and outlined the process for the debate. The Chairman stated that, owing to the interest in the item, she would extend the time permitted under the scheme by allowing more public speakers and councillors to have their say.

 

At the invitation of the Chairman the petition organiser, Lucy Gomes, presented the petition which had received over 16.000 signatures, and which requested that the outdoor education centres in Braeside and Oxenwood not be closed. A decision had been taken by Cabinet on  27 March 2018 that the centres would be closed from August 2018.

 

In presenting her petition Lucy Gomes: emphasised the importance of outdoor education and the contribution the council run centres; expressed the concern that there are already fewer opportunities for outdoor education; stated that the petition was the largest to be presented to Wiltshire Council; summarised the concern that schools, families were not consulted before the decision; emphasised that the centres are well used and give opportunities to vulnerable children and the impact on wider issues such as health and education.

 

The following members of the public were invited to speak:

 

Alan Rankin referred to financial demands on councils and the decisions to reducing non-statutory service to protect statutory services, but argued whether the wider value created by outdoor education centres had been fully into account. He further argued that cabinet was not adequately informed of this social value when making their decision, and emphasised the importance of the centres for some families suffering from deprivation.

 

Rachel Ross expressed concern that the consultation process had not included a wider range of stakeholders, and argued that the equality impact assessment was not sufficient. She further argued that small facilities are better placed to support those with additional needs, and asked that a solution be considered to keep the facilities within Wiltshire.

 

Amanda Humphries argued that the figures used to establish the cost of keeping the facilities open were not up to date, and argued that all stakeholders should be consulted;

 

Sylvia Card emphasised the use of the centres from across the county, and the value they add. She further stated that the community was angry as they had not been consulted on this, and did not feel that the decision had been made correctly.

 

Councillor Judy Rose of Devizes Town Council emphasised the strength of feeling over the decision, and expressed concern that the town council had not been consulted. She further stated that the social value of the centres had not been taken into account, and that the financial costs of running the centres had not been correctly identified.

 

At the invitation of the Chairman, Councillor Laura Mayes, Cabinet Member for Children, Education and Skills, spoke in response, thanking those that came to spoke so passionately, emphasising that she understood the strength of feeling, and agreed about the points raised regarding the benefits of outdoor education. She did, however, restated her belief that Wiltshire Council was not best placed to run them directly due to financial constraints and the need to prioritise statutory functions with increasing costs such as support for those with special education needs No other providers had previously come forward who stated they could take over management of the centres, but if alternative providers could be found that would be a beneficial outcome. 

 

Councillor Mayes proposed, subsequently seconded by Councillor Jerry Wickham;

 

1. To thank the petitioners for their contribution to the debate;

 

2. To note the issues raised in the debate, and to ask Cabinet to take account of these issues when considering offers from alternative providers at their meeting.

 

The Chairman then invited the political Group Leaders to comment.

 

Baroness Scott of Bybrook OBE, Leader of the Council, emphasised that council had to make difficult decisions regarding in relation to children’s services, and used as example the need to provide more for special education provision. She stated that Cabinet would welcome the further discussions at their meeting in June.

 

Councillor Ian Thorn, Leader of the Liberal Democrat Group, thanked the campaigners for bringing the matter to debate at Council, and argued that the decision should not have been taken without fuller consultation. He emphasised the need to adequately value the social as well as the financial cost when making the decision.

 

Councillor Thorn proposed an amended motion. Following advice from the Monitoring Officer, and with the agreement of the proposer and seconder, (who was the seconder) the following amended motion was accepted by the Cabinet Member,for debate:

 

1. To thank the petitioners for their contribution to the debate;

 

2. To note the issues raised in the debate, and to ask Cabinet to take account of these issues when considering offers from alternative providers at their meeting;

 

3. That any decision taken by the cabinet should be open and transparent, that social impacts should be considered equally with financial impacts, and that the Cabinet use every best effort to ensure the two sites will remain in use for outdoor education.

 

Councillor Ernie Clark, Leader of the Independent Group, endorsed the comments of Councillor Thorn and emphasised the importance of scrutiny of such important decisions.

 

Councillor Ricky Rogers< Leader of the Labour Group stated that he was happy with the amendment as written, and thanked petitioners for speaking for their communities. He stated that whilst he preferred that the centres should be run by Wiltshire Council, he asked that Cabinet should think carefully about how the centres could be run by an alternative provider.

 

Before opening the debate, the Chairman reminded Councillors to restrict their comments to the motion in question rather than the wider issues.

 

Councillor Bill Douglas expressed concern that the administration was not open to alternative proposals.

 

Councillor Chris Devine argued that the administration had not consulted properly, and expressed hope that the Cabinet member would put her best efforts to find a solution to this problem.

 

Councillor Gavin Grant acknowledged the response by Councillor Mayes, and hoped there would be an opportunity to review what lessons could be learnt from the process leading up to this decision; arguing that Cabinet should have been more open in the decision and welcomed the opportunity of looking at the social impact. He further argued that the inclusion of the phrase ‘best effort’ was important to ensure that trust was built up with the community going forward, and expressed hope that the centres could be run by suitable body.

 

Councillor Ross Henning expressed concern that Select Committee decisions should always be evidence based and free from political influence, and emphasised the importance of the centres going forward to support families and local communities.

 

Councillor Ian McLennan welcome the support from Councillor Mayes for the amended motion. He expressed regret that local council had to make decisions where central government had reduced the funding, emphasised support for the centres and that the case for closure had not been made. He further argued that the council should be given a chance to be run more efficiently.

 

Councillor Mary Douglas thanked those who had attended to speak in support of the petition, and stated that she was pleased to see that the issues they had raised would be considered by Cabinet.

 

Councillor Jon Hubbard thanked Councillor Mayes for the motion and for accepting the amendment. He stated that he struggled to find a good reason for the decision when asked to explain the rationale to young people in his community and emphasised the overall cost of the service is small compared to the impact it has in the community. He further argued that he had not been told where the reduction in revenue arising from the closure would be taken into account, and exhorted the Cabinet to proactively find an alternative provider.

 

In making his representation, the Chairman advised Councillor Hubbard that the issues regarding the scrutiny of the decision were not pertinent to the debate on the motion.

 

Councillor Mathew Dean thanked the members of the public for presenting their views, and welcome an economically viable solution but emphasised that this may not be an easy thing to achieve.

 

Councillor Trevor Carbin referenced the work of the scrutiny task group and stated his belief the views arising from their report had not been fully considered.

 

Councillor Jim Lynch gave the example of how towns, such as Bradford on Avon, used a voluntary model to provide youth facilities whilst reducing costs.

 

In response to the debate, Councillor Mayes thanked again all those that had contributed their views, and stated that these would be considered by Cabinet.

 

Upon being put to a recorded vote, the meeting;

 

Resolved

 

1.    To thank the petitioners for their contribution to the debate;

 

2.    To note the issues raised in the debate, and to ask Cabinet to take account of these issues when considering offers from alternative providers at their meeting;

 

3.    That any decision taken by the cabinet should be open and transparent, that social impacts should be considered equally with financial impacts, and that the Cabinet use every best effort to ensure the two sites will remain in use for outdoor education.

 

Admin Note: A record of the vote is appended to these minutes.