Agenda and draft minutes

To receive any apologies or substitutions for the meeting.

Apologies for absence were received from:

·         Cllr Richard Clewer

·         Cllr Howard Greenman,

·         Cllr George Jeans, and,

·         Jennifer Whitten

To receive any declarations of disclosable interests or dispensations granted by the Standards Committee.

There were no declarations of interest.

To receive any announcements through the Chairman:

·       Statement of Accounts 2019/20

The Chairman stated that the announcement regarding the Statement of Accounts 2019/20 would now be taken under Urgent Items.

The Council welcomes contributions from members of the public.

Statements

If you would like to make a statement at this meeting on any item on this agenda, please register to do so at least 10 minutes prior to the meeting. Up to 3 speakers are permitted to speak for up to 3 minutes each on any agenda item. Members of the public are encouraged to register to speak earlier by contacting the officer named on the front of the agenda.

Questions

To receive any questions from members of the public or members of the Council received in accordance with the constitution.

Questions must relate to the subject under consideration at this extraordinary meeting in order to be accepted.

Those wishing to ask questions are required to give notice of any such questions in writing to the officer named on the front of this agenda no later than 5pm on 28 November 2024 in order to be guaranteed of a written response. In order to receive a verbal response, questions must be submitted no later than 5pm on2 December 2024. Questions may be asked without notice if the Chairman decides that the matter is urgent.

Details of any questions received will be circulated to Committee members prior to the meeting and made available at the meeting and on the Council’s website.

Please contact the officer named on the front of this agenda for further advice.

There were no public statements or questions received.

To consider the Statement of Accounts 2020/21 and Statement of Accounts 2021/22.

Item includes:

·       A report from the Interim Corporate Director Resources and S151 Officer on the Statement of Accounts 2020/21 and 2021/22

·       Statement of Accounts 2020/21 (including Annual Governance Statement 2020/21)

·       Statement of Accounts 2021/22 (including Annual Governance Statement 2021/22)

·       Letters of Representation (letter to follow)

·       External Auditors ISA 260 report to those charged with governance (report to follow)

·       External Auditors ISA 260 report for the pension fund (report to follow)

The Chairman invited Lizzie Watkin (Interim Corporate Director Finance and S151 Officer) to introduce the Statement of Accounts 2020/21 and 2021/22. The officer apologised that she was attending the meeting virtually, which was unavoidable as she had a meeting in London after the Committee.

It was highlighted that the Committee had heard about the issues in relation to these accounts many times. Both sets of accounts had been published for the regulatory 30 day public inspection period. Deloitte were the external auditors for these accounts and were at the meeting in person. The council was expecting a disclaimer opinion from the external auditors, and this was what had been presented in the papers. There were various steps to conclude to meet the backstop of 13 December 2024, these included approving the accounts, approving the letter of representation, ratifying the Annual Governance Statements (AGS) and approving the amendments. It was explained that when the AGS was first considered we were expecting an adverse opinion on the 2019/20 accounts. So, the suggested amendments recognised the technical changes in terms of the audit opinions for the accounts. The Committee needed to formally delegate to the S151 to finalise matters and get signatures ahead of the backstop.

At the Chairman’s invitation Ian Howse, Deloitte, spoke, commenting that at long last the 2019/20 accounts had been signed and apologised for the delay regarding that. Today the Committee were considering the 2020/21 and 2021/22 accounts. It was explained that in September 2024 legislation had been brought in with backstop deadlines, whereby all accounts up to and including 2022/23 should be signed off by 13 December 2024. The 2020/21 and 2021/22 accounts would receive disclaimer opinions, which essentially meant that they were not given an opinion. This was not very satisfactory; however, Wiltshire Council were not alone in this, and many local authorities had faced delays in relation to audits. It was highlighted that the 2022/23 accounts should also be being considered at this meeting, however they had not completed their public inspection period, so these would miss the backstop deadline, which would need to be reported to government. The work on those would be completed as quickly as possible after the backstop, they would also receive a disclaimer opinion.

Details were given on the ISA 260 report for 2020/21 and 2021/22 (published in supplement 2) which was usually issued following an audit, however, it was noted that there had not really been an audit in the usual sense. Possible errors were listed within the report. As mentioned earlier there would be a disclaimer opinion on both sets of accounts. Material issues would be included with the opinions when published. They had raised some deficiencies regarding financial reporting controls. Value for money work was still ongoing and would be reported following the backstop. An annual report would also be issued in due course.

There had been a couple of objections from the public inspection period regarding the 2020/21 and 2021/22 accounts, which was basically the same objection  ...  view the full minutes text for item 65.

To receive an update on the Statement of Accounts 2022/23.

Lizzie Watkin, Interim Corporate Director Finance and S151 Officer gave an update to the Committee om the Statement of Accounts 2022/23.

As described earlier in the meeting, these accounts would not be completed ahead of their backstop on 13 December 2024 as they had not been published in time for the 30 day public inspection period to be complete ahead of the meeting. They had not been published in time as resources were tied up working on the 2020/21 and 2021/22 accounts. The council would need to tell government that the backstop would be missed, and the impact or implications of that were not known. There might be a knock on affect for the 2023/24 accounts.  

The 2022/23 accounts had now been published in draft for their 30 day inspection period and they were working with the external auditors so that these could be considered at the meeting of the Audit and Governance Committee on 17 January 2025. The hope was that the Committee would be able to do what had been done today for those accounts as well.

Mr Ian Howse, Deloitte had nothing further to add.

The Chairman proposed to note the report which was seconded by Cllr Stuart Wheeler, and it was,

Resolved:

That the Audit & Governance Committee note the contents of the report.

To note the Forward Work Programme.

The Chairman highlighted the Forward Work Plan (FWP) in the agenda and queried if any changes were requested, none were. It was,

Resolved:

To note the FWP.

Any other items of business which the Chairman agrees to consider as a matter of urgency.

The Chairman noted that following agenda publication an updated final ISA 260 external auditors report for 2019/20 audit was published as in agenda supplement 1 which would be taken under urgent items.

Lizzie Watkin, Interim Corporate Director Finance and S151 Officer, stated that at the meeting of the Audit & Governance Committee in February 2024 the Statement of Accounts 2019/20 were considered and approved. We now had the full conclusion from the external auditors and the Committee needed to receive that and ensure there were no issues. The Committee had debated these accounts many times, and this was the final wrapping up.

Ian Howse, Deloitte, added that this just concluded the position, and they were signed on 22 November 2024. This was a positive step forward on getting back on track.

Members requested some clarity on points 45, 47 and 49 (pages 70, 71 and 72 of supplement 1) where there appeared to be some degree of disagreement between Deloitte and senior management, as it would be helpful to understand. It was highlighted that this had been debated back in February. However, the S151 officer stated that sometimes management and auditors did not agree. This was not concerning, and it was right that they should have their own professional opinions. There was no significant risk from disagreements.

Point number 45 was about technical resources capacity which had been discussed in some detail earlier in the meeting. The officer disagreed with the auditor’s comments under this point and noted that significant improvements had been made in terms of capacity and training for staff.

In relation to point number 47 about cash flow statements, the officer did not think there was an issue there. They had moved forward and would continue to work with the external auditors. In relation to point 49, the council were notified late by the auditors, so they did not have time to work through that one. It would be considered every year going forward on the accounts.    

Ian Howse, Deloitte stated that management were clear on what needed to be done, and an improvement journey was underway. There was no particular tension, but possibly a slight disagreement on the cause of issues.

Members queried the timescale to no longer be reliant on agency staff and for internal teams to have sufficient numbers and competency. The officer stated that the 2023/24 accounts were underway, and these would be completed with agency resources in place. The 2024/25 accounts would again be undertaken with agency resources in place and this set of accounts would be much more robust. Internal staff would get to see the full robust process and have support if required, it would be a good test. The officer would then make a judgement call on whether internal staff were ready. 

On the proposal of the Chairman, seconded by Cllr Martin Smith, it was,

Resolved:

That the Audit and Governance Committee note the contents of the report.